Nothing like. The master volume in most amps that you know of are all Pre-Phase Inverter Master Volumes. The term PPIMV, generally refers to POST-Phase Inverter Master Volumes. Anybody applying this term to a DSL would be wrong. The pre-type is just a way of controlling volume to the power amplifier (the Phase Inverter whilst the same tube type as the pre-amp tubes, is in fact functioning as part of the power amplifier) so as the volume is kept down lower, whilst the gain is kept high.
The post type is basically turning down the volume after the phase inverter stage, so as you also gain more tube distortion from the phase inverter, whilst not deafening everybody within a mile radius. However, due to the amount of power amp distortion generated in DSL's compared to earlier designs, there would be very little benefit in adding a PPIMV. The DSL (and most modern Marshalls) is all about pre-amp gain really. Thanks for clarifying that guys.
I was just really curious about it, because I want, actually NEED less volume. I thought maybe the PPIMV, like the LAR/MAR option would be an improvement over the stock DSL MV. People on the Metro Forum, and even here who've build 2203 clones often opt for that MV design.
View and Download Marshall Amplification JCM 2000 DSL50 handbook online. JCM 2000 DSL50 Amplifier pdf manual download. Also for: Jcm 2000 dsl100.
This all comes from me volleying e-mail with Kevin O' Connor at London Power. I'm on the brink of buying 2 kits from him, the SV1 & RBX kits I just want this DSL to have better volume control - without relying solely on the master volume.
Last week, I tried out that Slash signature head, with the variable power function, or EPA, whatever they call it. I was very, very impressed. Yes, it lost some of the sheer size of the sound at FULL POWER, but the detail, dynamics and girth was still there. It didn't sound tinny or fake.
The point is not to get it down to bedroom level, or 'whisper' quiet, but if the DSL sounds best at Vol 6-7, Gain 2-4 etc. I just want to halve that volume, or cut it down to 30-40% so my ears stop ringing. There's enough room inside the DSL chassis to install these 2 small cards. I'm thinking it's a small investment to get what I need out of this thing. If I could afford one, and find one, I'd probably get a YJM - but it's out of my price/pain threshold. Experienced Posts: 65 Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:13 pm. Funny you should say that Demon, that is DEFINITELY part of the reason why I love the DSL.
That midrange BOWMP I get with the volume up higher, and the DEEP switch engaged. I just want to tame it slightly.
With this amp, even at lower volumes, you lose some of the dynamics, but if you're sitting closer to the speaker on a carpeted floor (closed back 2X12) you can still feel the push. I don't NEED it up way loud, it sure sounds better, but my ears always ring after I play it at that volume.
I should actually try an attenuator. I did try the Dr. Z airbrake once on a 50 watt Marshall at a store in my city. It was quite cool.
I'd never need to dial the volume down to whisper quiet - there's no point in owning this amp if that's the goal. But, to shave the volume down so it's still 'loud', just not ear splitting loud. — Again, thank you guys. Experienced Posts: 65 Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:13 pm. Chuckharmonjr — I have a ton of chime through the DSL - it's my Gretsch, which is semi-chambered, and has a powertron plus pickup. I get that KERRANG, jangle on the top end in spades. I actually have lots of that kind of definition - sometimes too much I think.
But, since playing the DSL with a Gibson SG 61 reissue, now I want one of those! Man that 57 classic bridge is the shit. It's fatter, warmer, still has a lot of bite, but the solid body makes a huge difference. There's this firm kind of FRUG around a single note, and it's SO classic sounding.
I've always been a nut for firm aggressive midrange, that GEOWWW tone that Angus gets off the trailing A chord on the intro to Shoot To Thrill. If you listen to the first few notes, and him ending with the A chord, it actually sounds like that. With the 57 classic bridge pup, we got that same effect through the DSL. Now I need an SG with that pickup! — Francois, not sure if you ever got that e-mail, but my brother in law would like you to take a look at his DSL - for the speaker jack mod, and just a general look over.
— If you have the time of course. Experienced Posts: 65 Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:13 pm. DSL-100 wrote: With the 57 classic bridge pup, we got that same effect through the DSL. Now I need an SG with that pickup!
Not to get off topic, but is the '57 classic pup roughly the same as the '57 RI PAFs? I have a classic custom that came stock with that set.they actually sound a little fizzy to me when cranked up. I have an Angus Young signature in my Jackson and it loves the DSL. Not quite as high output as the PAFs, and you get that nice jangly GEOWWW on the crunch channel.
Noob Posts: 4 Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:16 pm.
I'm thinking about buying a DSL50 for $500 in good cosmetic shape with fresh tubes. What do you think?
I am concerned with the quality of tone offered by the DSL50 for a variety of music, ranging from clean finger-picking to edge-of-breakup country/blues rhythm and lead to hard rockin/heavy metal. Think Pink Floyd, Petty, SRV, early Megadeth/Metallica, Machine Head. I might purchase the Marshall 1960a cab with Celestion GL-60s (never heard of these speakers), or just use my Avatar OS 2x12 with V30s I've tried the DSL 100 and 50 watt heads at lower volumes in music stores and have mixed feelings about them. There seemed to be a variety of decent tones to be had, but the shared eq didn't work so well.
What worked well on one channel hindered the other. The clean and crunch modes were nice, the lead 1 and especially lead 2 left me unsatisfied, kind of muddy and fizzy, not so articulate. But, this was at lower volumes and I'm guessing the amp would even out on the eq and fill out on the drive channels at higher volumes? I did like the DSLs better than Peavey 5150/6505 and Mesa anything (except Electradyne).
I have a Soldano Hot Rod 50 Plus with a shared eq for the 2 channels that works well. I'm looking at the DSL50 to add a different color for recording at home - more of the raw Marshall, EL34 British-flavored rock tone. Playing loud is not a problem. I might even consider flipping the Soldano if the DSL50 can cover the same sonic ground adequately. I realize that the Soldano is a boutique amp that is hand-made in the USA out of top-quality parts, and that the Marshall is an amp made with less care using lower-quality parts, that has it's fair share of reliability issues reported on the internet. I'm not too concerned with reliability considering that I'll mostly be using the amp at home for fun and recording, not subjecting it to any abuse.
For $500 its worth it. They usually go for a bit more. If you dont like it, flip it for a few bucks profit.
In terms of tone. Hell, Jeff Beck used them for quite a few years (maybe he still is). I like the tone cranked on the DSL50s, but the whole JCM 2000 series lacks quality tone at low volumes. If you ask me, the DSL50 is only JCM2000 thats any good. My experience with the DSL50 is that it is surprisingly versatile (meaning, all kinds of rock/metal/blues/country). They love V30s, however, I'm sure a solid Marshall cab with most any Celestions will do just fine as well. I've had my Marshall DSL since 1997 and I've owned and sold many amps since then.
The DSL is the only amp that I still use on an almost daily basis and for gigs. I've added a Clean/Crunch footswitch mod for the green channel and its made the amp extremely versatile. Its simple and cheap. I love the clean channel.
Very rich sounding and a lot of clarity. It sounds great with a Strat on the neck pickup. This is the best Marshall clean I've ever had the pleasure of playing through. The crunch mode of the green channel is where I spend most of my time. Either straight up or with a boost pedal in front, this mode absolutely shines. Its definitely ealry master volume territory, but smoother. I found that adding a choke ($25.00 upgrade) make a positive difference.
It seems to add a little more grunt to the sound when cranked. The Red channel is singing leads. Great for soloing. Tons of sustain.
I don't care much for the over the top Lead II mode but Lead I is where its at. Much better than the Mesa lead tones I had. If you already have a Soldano, you'll find that the Marshall DSL will be a very nice complement to it.
I use to gig with a DSL50 into a 1960a cab, really like the clean channel, not so much the lead channel, I couldn't eq or adjust out a nasally sound in the lead channel and it was still fizzy even at high volumes, seemed like the more volume you use on the lead channel the worse it got. I also had problems with the shared eq. If you use both channels then you have to set the eq as a compromise between both channels. Seemed to be too much bass in the clean channel then too little in the lead. As someone mentioned, there is a slight pause when you use the footswitch to change channels. Another known issue that I had was the channels cutting out and it's a simple fix of cleaning out the channel switch input with some contact cleaner and ramming a 1/4' jack back and forth, other than that it was very reliable.
I still have the DSL50 and keep it around as a backup and it's decent enough that I probably won't get rid of it. Thanks for all of the replies and info!!
I brought the amp home yesterday afternoon. Like many of you mentioned, it will be easy to flip if it's not my thing. I didn't get to spend much time with it yesterday, but here are my first impressions comparing it to the Soldano HR50+ thru an Avatar OS 2x12 with V30s, using a G&L Legacy HB.
Note that these are based on mostly house-friendly volumes below 4 on the volume knobs: Clean - nice clean channel that stays clean well up the volume and gain knobs. A bit brittle in the single coil settings unless the gain is cranked. Crunch - I was dissapointed in this channel. The breakup was not as much as I expected, and was unpleasant/harsh. I was shooting for SRV to ACDC type tones where I could do clean to crunch with the guitars volume. It didn't work out so well.
The Soldano's clean channel is based on the SLO's crunch setting, and does clean to crunch with guitar volume, nicely. I could live on that channel and a couple of drive pedals to get everything from clean to metal. I look forward to experimenting with pedals, preamp tubes and biasing to warm up this channel and increase the gain a tad.
Lead 1 - Love it. It is the hard rock/old-metal rhythm tone. Power chord heaven. It's more raw and trashy than the Soldano. Where the Soldano is refined, articulate and clear, the DSL50 is nasty, spitty and unpolite.
I can see using this for rock rhythms and the Soldano for leads. Reminds me of the tones I got out of the Slash signature head. A criticism I have is that fast runs on the bass strings were muddy. The tone mushed out when trying to chug and rip on the upper two strings. I cranked the volume hoping this would tighten things up. Suprisingly, I found the tone to thin out and become harsh at higher volumes.
Again, I look forward to making eq adjustments, tubes and biasing to tighen this channel up and keep it ballsy at higher volumes. Lead 2 - ugh.
Lack of definition. This is with bass and tone shift switches unengaged. Maybe an overdrive in front will tighten things up and make it useable. Dunno that I would use it for much other than the occasional singing, high-gain solo, kind of like a Big Muff tone. Overall, the amp is killer for $500. The addition of a pedal-friendly effects loop and, less significantly, reverb, help make this a bang-for-buck amp when compared to the Soldano. I can't wait to spend more time with it.
I do have a few questions for those of you that have owned/own it: How do I go about finding out what year this amp was made? Tube suggestions? The clean/crunch footswitch mod - how is it, how much is it (I would probably install myself), and is the volume difference remedied?
Last, any tips or suggestions on how to warm up and add some gain to the crunch channel, and how to tighten up and add some girth to the Lead channel? Thanks again! DSL is a good deal for 500.00, but the Soldano will kick it's butt IMO. I have a DSL 100. It can't hang at all with my boutique amps, but it is a good gig amp.
I don't know that I'd buy one to record with. I find that if you use a lot of gain, they are better sounding a lower volumes.When you crank them in high gain mode they can become harsh. Speaker and cabinet choice helps.
If you run them full out in green mode without the crunch button in, it can be nice. It's hard to get a good EQ on both channels, it's one of that amps Achilles' heels. The green channel takes pedals pretty well.
I always liked that amp with strats more than Les Pauls. Good luck and enjoy it. The Soldano is great.
Most days I love it, some days it's not what I want to hear, but it always sings with great articulation, clarity, and harmonics. My initial, inexperienced impression of the DSL50 is similar to my opinion of a PV Classic - two footswitchable channels with some great instant tones, nice effects loop, footswitchable reverb, great bang for buck amp used. Of course, the DSL50 sounds like a Marshall. I think that the DSL50 for $500 is better than the Class 5 for $400. Two different amps for sure, but the DSL is plenty more amp for not much more moolah.